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Poaching
Wednesday 5th of August 2020, 15:57
103 replies | 2390 views | Coaching
 
@Post1
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90.217.25.158 | Sun 2nd Aug 2020 - 23:14
 
What's your opinion on Coaches who are taken on as National Team Coaches but they blatantly poach athletes from other teams?
@Post2
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176.253.126.151 | Sun 2nd Aug 2020 - 23:27
 
Its a total disgrace...so unethical to do that!
TS need to act on this its going to stop gyms from sending athletes to represent their national teams.
There has to be a rule saying an athtlete can't leave their gym to go to TS coaches gyms.
Reply from @post7
@Post3
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90.217.25.158 | Sun 2nd Aug 2020 - 23:41
 
Surely there must be something in place that this doesnt happen? I have witnessed this over the past couple of years but think this needs to stop or teams wont be confident in sending their athletes to participate!
@Post4
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80.7.194.178 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 00:12
 
I've had other gyms in my area message an athelte I feel like an athelte deciding to leave weather doe a higher team or another reason is fine but other coaches contacting and trying to persuade athletes is awful
@Post5
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80.7.194.178 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 00:13
 
As a coach if an athelte wants to move for a worlds team or soemthing I wouldn't call it poaching I would be proud of that athlete
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@Post6
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90.217.25.158 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 00:21
 
@post5 I agree if an athlete is moving onto a better opportunity/progression, that would be appropriate.
@Post7
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148.252.133.104 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 09:31
 
@post2 I totally agree , I know a team that has lost several team members this season after going to TS they then joined 1 of the Ts coaches team . That should not be allowed . I have also heard that TS coaches takes athletes all the time from other Teams . I however do agree at post above if an athlete feels they would like to move on to join a better more successful team then that athlete is totally not wrong to do this as they just trying to better themselves , but national team should definately not he taking athletes .
@Post8
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46.237.173.176 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 11:24
 
Maybe after being on TS they decided the TS coaches style suited them better than the coach at their old gym? Agree coaches shouldn’t poach, but this could all be the athletes/parents choices
@Post9
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213.205.241.84 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 12:14
 
I’m sure there’s been a post a while back about TS coaches running their own camps to gain to their own ?
Regardless... it’s known athletes knew they were on said team before the tryout process !!
As TS promoting a unified team do they honestly think coaches will support their athletes in going for it when the coaches take them for their own teams , kids move on , that’s not the point , how are coaches meant to have confidence in their athletes going there ?? Plus the coach is well known for it
@Post10
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94.194.250.52 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 12:28
 
The thing is, athletes can only be poached if they want to be. Some of these athletes have been in several different gyms over the last few years. Why would you want someone like that in your team that shows no commitment or loyalty???
@Post11
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213.205.241.84 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 12:38
 
I don’t think it’s about the athletes, it’s the running of TS and how unethical it is for a ‘ unified TS’
@Post12
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92.40.193.38 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 12:56
 
How did I who this post was going to be about before I clicked on it lol. Not surprised at all
@Post13
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94.10.92.230 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 13:35
 
You know elite athletes move mid season. Eg footballers rugby players
@Post14
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94.14.150.1 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 13:37
 
These are children. Do they not get a say in where or what friends they decide to enjoy their hobby with? Nobody 'owns' kids at their gym. People want our sport to be treated seriously but then don't want to deal with people acting like they would in any other sporting team.
@Post15
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148.252.133.104 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 14:55
 
Of course children can change teams , that not what this thread seems to be about , it's about athletes going to Ts then not want to go back to their own team , as Ts coaches draw them to their teams !
@Post16
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213.205.241.22 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 14:57
 
A handful of kids have changed teams but majority of the kids at team Scotland stay at their own programmes . The ones that have chose to leave clearly have reason for doing so.
@Post17
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2.216.92.70 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 19:11
 
As said above , you can only be poached if you want to be. TS coaches should have the morals not to take athletes from other clubs that another coach has worked so hard training them to get them there in the first place.
@Post18
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81.99.38.102 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 21:39
 
What team is ts
@Post19
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92.1.138.9 | Mon 3rd Aug 2020 - 23:14
 
Unethical in all manners. Whatever happened to loyalty ? It’s a disgrace coaches will offer athletes placements on their own teams after training with thematic TS , blatant disrespect for a fellow professional. Greedy and selfish after another coach has put in all the work to “take credit” . All I can say is let them go, the grass is not always greener and they will soon find out.
@Post20
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92.40.179.41 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 09:03
 
Are we talking about moving mid season or at the end of the season? Mid season isn’t great and ok for coaches to be annoyed, but at the end of the season everyone has the choice to go where they want.
@Post21
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85.255.236.58 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 09:30
 
At post above . Last season I know for certain mid season
@Post22
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213.205.241.198 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 10:22
 
I don’t think it can really be called poaching if the child was never approached and actively asked to join or given a place on a team without trying out! Maybe the children that have left have liked this coaches techniques? Could the coach maybe just be a good coach? Why can’t coaches be happy for the children that want to push them self for a higher level and if their club doesn’t offer these levels then the only choice really is to move club! Shouldn’t the coaches be happy that they have got them this far? And happy that the child isn’t giving up cheer all together? Why would you want a child to attend your classes being miserable and not pushing to their full potential due to being unhappy? The child is the most important person, and surely they deserve to be happy doing a sport they love? People need to see the bigger picture here!! As said in a post above the gym does not own the child!! If they want to move clubs then let them move.
@Post23
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92.232.42.42 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 10:24
 
So before lockdown I was a member of Bannatynes and paid them a lot of money for my membership. I went to an open day at David Lloyd and whilst it is similar money I felt it was a better fit for me. Once my membership was done I moved my custom to the better fit for me.

Is this wrong? No I am a consumer and get to chose what I think is value for money. Did I see out my contract/commitment? Yes.

I don't see how cheer is any different? You pay for a service if you see out your commitment and chose to move to a better fit for you then fair play. Just remember the grass isn't always greener. Do not agree with mid season moves though
@Post24
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92.40.195.187 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 10:37
 
Is there a certain team scotland coach that has been messaging/ contacting athletes - I would say this is classed as poaching & also wrong as an adult you shouldn’t be messaging kids , young adults on social media & action should be taken?

However if someone makes the decision on their own whatever the circumstances, they prefer the coaching methods , they have made friends & what to continue dancing with these dance friends & team, to get on a worlds team etc. This is that individuals own personal choice & is not poaching!!
@Post25
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148.252.133.104 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 10:40
 
We are talking national coaches here tho! Not just team to team ? This is about national team coaches ( team Scotland coaches ) taking athletes to their teams after being in Team Scotland . It is not good enough !
Reply from @post28
@Post26
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86.158.100.70 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 10:48
 
I just cant get why people would want to air their laundry in public and talk about children like this, surely everyone has the right to move to where ever they feel is a better fit and maybe more challenging, if you have an issue take this up through the proper channels and do not come on here trying to ruin athletes and coaches reputations. The athletes in questions did not move mid season, they approached the coaches to advise that they were no longer returning for the next season and then tried out for another team that they wanted to join like everyone other athlete has the right to do at the end of the season. There was no poaching, back handed conversations or anything else happening. I agree with posts @22 and @23, as parents we have the right to decide who we want to coach our children and that the end of the story.
@Post27
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92.232.42.42 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 10:49
 
Ah my misunderstanding did the TS coach offer them a place out of the blue? Or did the athlete/parent sign up for a tryout off their own accord?

We want good TS coaches, i think if we say they can't poach that's fair. They shouldn't be able to actively recruit TS athletes to their team. However I don't think it js fair to say if the parent/athletes turns up at tryouts thay you need to turn them away. Or no one would apply to coach TS if they can't allow people who approach to join their team??

Should this apply to only athletes you directly cosch on TS or any athlete who is part of TS? I'm curious to hear your general opinions
@Post28
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92.40.195.187 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 10:53
 
@post25 what team scotland coach & do you have proof of this?
@Post29
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94.195.120.171 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 11:12
 
One of the girls you are clearly talking about is now moving to her third programme - totally her choice and her parents choice . It’s not like she’s been in a programme her whole life went to team Scotland and left to go to TS coaches team?!
She was only in her previous team for one season so she obviously didn’t enjoy it and had her reasons for leaving
@Post30
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86.185.217.109 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 11:15
 
As a TS Athlete previously I can honestly say most athletes that moved teams last seasons were already thinking about it BEFORE they joined Team Scotland. It just confirms where they would be better off and where they make friends. These are kids we are talking about.
@Post31
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176.253.126.151 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 11:34
 
Alot of you are missing the point here....the original post wasn't about kids moving programmes!!! Its about TS coaches gaining for their club teams....lots of Sports in the UK have national teams, kids tryout or are chosen to represent their country. Judo, Karate, Gymnastics etc.....The issue is that TS didn't implement a rule that most of these other sports do!!! There are ethics committees for a reason and codes of conduct are there to encourage clubs to support national teams efforts.
Should have been in the rules somewhere a TS coach cant accept athletes for a year say to compete for their club team!!!!
@Post32
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86.185.217.109 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 11:41
 
How do you know they don’t have this rule?
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@Post33
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90.217.25.158 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 11:51
 
@post32 they dont
@Post34
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92.232.42.42 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 11:53
 
Sounds like a really reasonable suggestion, this could then be included in the current cosches code of conduct and in the job spec when advertised so the coach knows the boundaries.

Why not get in touch with the National Team Committee to put forward this proposal? You could even volunteer for the NT committee for next year so you can see for yourself it is managed to your satisfaction
@Post35
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176.253.126.151 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 11:59
 
No wonder Cheer isn't taken seriously in this country when the national team can't even layout a basic code of conduct for coaches to follow!!
@Post36
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90.217.25.158 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 11:59
 
Why is it if you have a differing opinion you have people saying "join the committee"? Just because someone has a suggestion or a view which isnt in line with TS doesnt mean they have to be a part of it.
@Post37
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176.253.126.151 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 12:07
 
So the coach knows the boundaries? Yes I agree that it should have been made a formal rule, but the coach in question should know the boundaries herself its blatant disregard for her colleagues!!! They had a good relationship and she even hired their gym to train in...then this!!! Its a total disgrace.
@Post38
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92.232.42.42 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 12:08
 
https://www.sportcheerscot.org.uk/index.php?componentName=Forms&scid=103092

Code of conduct is on there, there current one doesn't mention their owk programme in any way.

And no of course don't have to be part of it but if you want to influence something - be it politics, sport committees, process in work - you need to find a way to have a voice. Otherwise I mean you are just moaning for the sake of moaning ... and if that's what you want to do bash on but don't expect change and I'm pretty sure your repetitive moans will get super boring to you when your ideas and expectations still aren't being met
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@Post39
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46.237.173.44 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 12:10
 
You could have a code of conduct that national team coaches can’t offer national team athletes places on their programme mid season or without having to try out. But why should we stop national team athletes signing up for tryouts at whatever programmes they want? Generally coaches are chosen to coach national teams because they are some of the best in the country, and athletes at a top level will want to be coached by the best coaches
@Post40
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92.232.42.42 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 12:18
 
Are any of the other UK NGB able to share their code of conduct to see what is industry standard?
@Post41
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81.129.23.227 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 13:09
 
Perhaps the athletes and parents have chosen to move teams as they do not wish to be part of an unprofessional team that posts unfounded comments on a national cheer forum .
@Post42
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86.153.40.63 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 13:47
 
@post38 PREACH
@Post43
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148.252.132.77 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 13:47
 
It's not just a recent problem though
@Post44
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85.255.235.231 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 14:58
 
They moved before this thread was started...
@Post45
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62.100.211.209 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 15:00
 
No one can force anyone to join another gym, if the kids/parents are happy then they would not move. Maybe look inside your own programme and see how you can improve so people want to stay instead of blaming others for the loss in numbers before trying to shame people online.
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@Post46
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90.209.162.1 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 15:19
 
@post45 you say that as if its coaches from 1 specific team writing on here. From what I have just read there seems to be people from a few different teams/areas agreeing that they feel what has happened over the past few years is wrong and others that obviously feel that what was done was justified and reasonable. Everyone's entitled to their opinion without trying to bash peoples businesses.
@Post47
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62.254.143.105 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 16:28
 
Surely it is up to the Athlete whether they want to go to a new team. If they are moving from a team to a TS Coach’s team then Maybe they liked their style of coaching and want a new challenge, don’t see it being a problem/ individual choice.
@Post48
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62.100.211.54 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 16:30
 
This whole thread was started with bashing a ts coach the main point. If people feel that strongly about kids leaving to go elsewhere that they are posting about it on line I think they should be trying to see how they can improve so that does not happen. That goes for if your a coach, athlete or parent.
@Post49
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92.1.138.9 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 21:18
 
Who dictates which coach is better than another. There are so many Scottish teams are “wonderful coaches” who don’t create their work. It’s all a big lie. Their team / their program but let’s call the good old USA and have someone do the job for us . That’s authentic Scottish training sure.
Children do have the right to train with whatever program they wish. But it is unethical that a coach part of TS approaches an athlete and offers them a placement on their team before the end of the season And before tryouts . It is wrong !! Complete lack of respect for the other program, displaying a mindset that they are bigger and better (WRONG ) .
If you cannot do the job yourself in all divisions within your club you are a cheat and to think you are better giving you the right to poach, it is unethical. There needs to be very clear rules like every other sport . What is allowed and what is not and a transfer window respected. And for the sake of being authentic don’t be a TS coach if you don’t create for your own program. Should be someone completely impartial anyway in charge of TS stop the Scottish cheer politics
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@Post50
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92.232.42.42 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 21:37
 
This post has taken so many turns.

Is there proof an athlete was actively recruited by a TS coach? The only moves im aware of were atbletes who finished the season at one programme and tried out for another.

Not to be too blunt but cheer is from the US, it was brought to the UK and initially all UK skills camps were run by Americans who were the subject matter experts. And even still those at the top of their game like spring tjmbling, Debbie love, pace coaches etc offer team and coaching training world wide to spread the knowledge. Personally its one of the things I love about the sport!!

@post49 it appears you have an issue with a specific coach or team. If you think they are cheating or have an unfair advantage there are multiple ways you could deal with this - address EPs with your concerns, address IASF with your concerns or if it is specifically you think TS are cheating then approach IVU. All will have a route to whistle blow. Writing on a forum may allow you to vent frustrations but gives no real credibility to your argument. If you were serious you would go through proper channels to address it.
@Post51
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92.232.42.42 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 21:39
 
just to add to my post above. I have assumed you haven't gone through proper channels if you have then great and trust in the system.
@Post52
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92.1.138.9 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 22:08
 
There are Scottish teams however that are authentic Scottish, they don’t seek help from USA. Who cares that it originated in America, yes learn from them , and the other countries but do not use their work. I never said TS use American work , if you read my post correctly I said Scottish programs do and then have the audacity to be involved with TS. Should they not learn to be authentic Scottish first with their own program before being involved with the national team.

My 2 daughters originally cheered for a Scottish program where we paid for American coaches to train them, therefore my decision was to move them into a team where I paid for the coaches to teach them not for them AND someone else to come in.

If you claim to be one of Scotland’s top programs and a “top name “ as a coach. Do the job yourself and then see how your results pan out. Not where the judges know who you are too. Give it a go yourself. Then be part of TS and advertise your a top program.

This thread to me is about the ethics of the sport. I now support our current coach , took time to support her for my children , and when I see the work they do in comparison, to be true , to have morals , to see this girl love the sport and give it her all, every coach should be the same. Makes when they win so much more real. It angers me as a parent to see a good coach like that provide opportunities to all their students for some TS coach to think they are bigger and better “poach” athletes Mid season and offer them a spot on their program with absolutely no respect for the coach that made them the athlete that got them there , it’s heartbreaking. The children leaving will soon find out for themselves however which is really sad.

Time for a change , time for TS to be impartial and not operated by some of Scottish programs and not all of them . Tell me where to sign up and I’ll support the cause. Make Scottish cheer and dance truly Scottish with coaches who have no connections to clubs and who visits ALL teams to create the best of the best . TELL ME WHERE TO SIGN and value this sport the way it should be
@Post53
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92.232.42.42 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 22:26
 
I'm a bit confused you want national team coaches who are "authentic Scottish coaches" but at the same time they cannot be a coach in Scotland as they have to be impartial?
@Post54
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92.1.138.9 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 22:57
 
National coaches should be impartial , not affiliated with current programs / existing club owners and they should VISIT ALL programs to select their athletes .

And programs / clubs / coaches should do their own training and not purchase it from the USA
if you are a coach then coach . Take advice , support each other but at least do the ground work and use your own vision.

Coaches should not poach athletes offering team placements out to kids from another club , mid season or end of season . If a child wants to move educate them about team commitment and go end of season and let it be their choice to move not via a coach poaching

That’s my opinion
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@Post55
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46.237.173.44 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 23:02
 
@post49, well results can single out ‘better’ coaches, but also those willing to learn and grow. In my opinion getting choreo or camps from the US can be a sign of good coaching, it shows you’re willing to learn from the best in the business. Some coaches do other health and fitness courses or mental health qualifications to help support their athletes, and that makes them stand out from the rest.

Realistically national coaches will have to have their own programme since the TS jobs aren’t full time and don’t pay well, you can’t expect anyone who’s any good to give up their own gym for it.
@Post56
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94.14.150.1 | Tue 4th Aug 2020 - 23:19
 
@post54 So they should be top of their game, good enough to be of national coach standard, but NOT be a full time coach with their own team? You must realise that's absurd. With the amount in fees TS athletes would need to pay to make that feasible would make it completely unaffordable - never mind the fact theres multiple coaches needed for various disciplines.

As for the 'authentic Scottish coach' arguement, I'm genuinely so confused as to how anyone would think bringing in someone who coaches at a world class level is a bad thing. If anything I think it's a great thing to invest in someone to come in and teach the kids and coaches. Also it really shows that a lot of the posters on here are cheer mums who dont seem to appreciate that as a kid having a camp with a coach from a team you've looked up to for years is a great experience.

It doesnt seem like a lot of the people posting here really care about the childs experience at all, if it were your own child who at the end of a season felt they would thrive more and be happier at another team would you really tell them they couldnt take that opportunity? I do, however, appreciate how upsetting it could be to a coach of their previous team dont get me wrong. I dont know anything about any 'poaching' but as cheer grows in Scotland there are so many teams cropping up in areas so close to each other, back in the original team scotland days it would have been a lot harder to move team to say Glasgow when you were from Dundee. Now there are much more options in so many areas of Scotland that changing teams is hardly new. I think you would be hard pushed to find any team that doesnt have atleast one athlete that has cheered on a different team before.
@Post57
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62.6.135.150 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 00:54
 
In an ideal world TS coaches would of course be at the top of their game and employed solely to coach for our country!!! Im sure alot of sports have struggled with these issues in the past!!
We all struggle ever day to fight the outdated stereotype that surrounds cheer...fundamentaly in this country it is a female orientated sport and as Coaches/ Parents/Athletes we should all be aware of supporting each ither as women!!!
Our sport will never be taken seriously when these issues are tolerated.
There needs to be an overall more professional approach to our national team....totally unified, without bias!!! As a parent I would be happy to pay a yearly fee to support our national team...if we all did that it could be managed as an independent programme and give the best of the best the opportunity to go and win for Scotland!!!!
@Post58
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92.1.138.9 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 02:25
 
I just don’t think you can claim to be “a Scottish team” if the coaches that are involved don’t train their own teams. No one is also expecting anyone in TS to have that their sole livelihood, don’t many coaches have other jobs anyway ? So how can the professionals on TS not just be qualified coaches that don’t have their own program. It’s not rocket science
I’m not sure how it works in other sports ? Does national teams managers still continue to manage a personal team /club , along with a national status ? What’s the deal with football ? Does the Scotland manager still manage a premiership team ? I don’t think so ? Conflict of interest I imagine

We shout about wanting recognition, no bias , fair play , but the facts are the Cheer and dance industry in Scotland is not fair play. It is not as simple as you win and your the best or not. There is politics involved, judges friendly with coaches , coaches purchasing choreography from Americans when they should do it themselves. Coaches poaching athletes from other teams etc . It can’t just be support one another when it’s not a level playing field. It’s bitchy and backstabbing , jealously and cliche .. within clubs / outwith clubs , nature of all sports. So In order to make some control of it all the rules should be clearer . Team Scotland should be coaches who don’t have their own clubs ( but obviously jobs outwith) and coaches should be reprimanded if they approach athletes from another club saying “come to us” it’s simply unethical , heartbreaking for those coaches who have tried to better their students and who have trained those kids for years . The fact is the coach who is poaching is self centred , who doesn’t care about the sport it’s their own self gain wherever it’s happening. The have no value or respect for these teams they target the children from.

I genuinely feel sorry for the passionate and very talented coaches who try to do it their way and build their teams from nothing. If my daughters ever have schools of their own I will fully encourage them to not poach , not pay someone else to do what I’ve spent all my money on teaching them how to do it themselves.
Time this country valued those who put the work in and do achieve the results making it to The Dance Worlds etc. It can be done , JC , goldstar , Brisbane etc. Talented Scottish coaches not paying Americans to do their jobs .
If you can’t coach your work for your own program you shouldn’t be coaching for the national team , end of story - what a joke .
Why should anyone take it serious when coaches don’t value or respect each other !
@Post59
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82.15.190.144 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 04:45
 
An athlete can do whatever they want in their career, however still respecting your ex coaches, athletes, etc. Nothing’s more embarrassing than leaving a team with zero decorum and losing all their old friends and losing the relationship with their coaches. You’ve learnt a lot from them, and it’s fine to move on- but do it respectfully and no one can ask for any more. If you feel you’re best suited somewhere else then go for it.
@Post60
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92.232.42.42 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 07:32
 
Leg me jump on the phone to all the world champion americanised teams like world Cup, senior elite, ETC who all pay for choreo and tell them they are not authentic!!

Shall we ask them to hand back their multiple globes and rings?

Having choreo from an external source does not mean they teach the team. Their week to week coach teaches them the skills, adapts that choreo to best fir their team, build the athletes confidence, teaches them to perform etc. In other words they are a coach in every sense of the word.

In the cheer I dusty the standard is to have coaches who are affiliated with a programme to coach the national team, because lets be honest if someone is good enough to coach a national team, loves the sport enough to want to commit to a national team they are going to be part of the cheer industry... we can't take Joe blogs off the street!

As for touring every team to select athles thats not practical hence why thee is an open call audition ...
@Post61
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86.158.100.70 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 07:39
 
it is clear that many people are missing the point here and it has been explained, the athletes DID NOT LEAVE mid season, the team in question where holding no zoom classes to athletes during lockdown which as extremely disappointing as they didn't have time. The parents contacted the coaches to advise that the their children would no longer be returning for the new season as they were asking them to sign up for the next season pay money for tryouts, although no tryouts were being held, ie no videos etc to be sent in. They then contacted the other team to ask about their tryout process and went through the proper channels, sending in videos for all the disciplines they were interested in and waited to hear their team results like everyone else. Now this all happened in May/June time so why now all of a sudden are the coaches coming on here to ruin reputations and speak about minors. To me if i was a parent in this programme i would be looking at whether i would want my child in a team where the coaches think it is acceptable to come on and talk about children in this way and act very unprofessionally to cause trouble and get some sympathy. Ultimately the athletes left as they want to do a higher level of cheer that the original team cannot offer, what is wrong with that ?? Loyalty and commitment is being branded about here, where is the loyalty from the coaches that they will protect and care for the athletes and not go on a social media sight like this and hide behind an anonymous mask and start a thread late at night. No one knows if there are other parts to this story that are not being told ? Please be respectful and remember that this is Children we are taking about and now very upset children that are being dragged through the mud on here because they have passion for a sport and want to progress, would it just be better if they gave up the sport altogether, as ultimately this is what would have happened as they were not happy where they were.
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@Post62
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148.252.132.77 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 07:52
 
@post61 you must be talking about a different team to the one I thought the children came from as the team I am thinking about did offer Zoom classes and brought on guest coaches to enhance the athletes learning experience. Also monies havent been taken for tryouts as they said it would be a season tshirt instead and teams would be evaluated once back at class. I dont believe that the coaches in question have been involved in this post as knowing them, I don't believe they would do that.

This post is ridiculous and I feel sorry for the children and coaches being discussed. This thread should be removed as it is clear there are minors being spoken about.
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@Post63
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213.205.241.248 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 07:55
 
The main point in this post was to single out a TS coach this is bullying in the highest order and done behind a keyboard! This could ruin someone’s livelihood all because someone has a bee on their bonnet about their team losing children. As read in posts above this coach has done nothing wrong it seems like the children have went through the appropriate avenues to gain a position on a new cheer team which there is absolutely no crime in as they have saw out the season! Coaches should be positive and wanting their children to succeed even if it is at another club which offers higher levels. This post is bitter!! The original poster should be ashamed of themselves!!
@Post64
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85.255.234.67 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 08:05
 
Is that not also what you are doing though. You are implying it came from the team where the children came from. Due to this being an anonymous forum: You cant prove that it was them and They cant prove it wasn't. You in turn are doing the same and are trying to ruin the reputation of that team who may or may not be involved in this thread!
Reply from @post72
@Post65
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92.232.42.42 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 08:16
 
Also seems like people have their wires crossed and were defending athletes whose move isn't in question.
@Post66
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94.195.120.171 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 08:36
 
Am I missing something ?
Which team Scotland coaches do not coach their own programmes ? As far as I know and see they all do ? Very confused
@Post67
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92.232.42.42 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 08:38
 
I mean I guess it could only really be me? I coach once in blue moon at Rockstar but not every month
@Post68
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92.232.42.42 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 08:39
 
apologies it keeps logging me out its Jen
@Post69
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94.195.120.171 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 08:45
 
I also can’t understand what teams pay americans instead of coaching themselves ? I think maybe everyone has Americans over but there’s nothing wrong with that ? Every top team on the planet work with other industry professionals , probably why they are the top teams on the planet
Goldstar ,JC ,CDC, red hot flames , RSD - ALL work with industry professionals from all over the world. They are all the top dance teams in the U.K.
there is a reason for that - they branch out every year to spend a lot of money to make sure their programmes are always up to date with the best of the best choreo ideas, scoresheet knowledge , rule knowledge etc etc
They invest a lot of money and that’s why they are the best teams and coaches because they constantly put themselves out there to learn off the best the world has to offer . I respect them ALL for that .
It makes them the most knowledgeable coaches in the U.K. it’s why they do so well.

It doesn’t make them frauds for not being “authentic”

Sorry for the morning rant but my god some people really have no clue !
@Post70
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94.195.120.171 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 08:47
 
Side note - when I say choreo they have someone come in to give there OWN routines a face lift . They still coach their own programmes with their own choreo week in and week out . So what if they have the worlds best come in to have a look at their WORLDS routines .
It’s called common sense
@Post71
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92.40.192.82 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 09:10
 
Maybe we should all be practising what we preach or should be teaching our athletes/children and be kind and show good sportsmanship as we would at competitions.

There are 2 sides to every story and then there is the truth. The only ones who know the truth are the specific athletes and it is not up to anyone else to anyone else to make up or mould the truth to suit themselves.

Given the current situation we should be looking forward and concentrating on the season ahead and hoping to get back to a level of normality in training with our teams instead of tearing each other down.

An anonymous forum is not the place to solve any of these issues and this thread should be deleted as other people have said.
@Post72
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213.205.241.248 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 09:39
 
@post64, no I wouldn’t say so! I never mentioned any teams where as the person who posted this singled out a TS coach! There was never any need to even mention TS all they had to say was a national team!!
Reply from @post73
@Post73
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185.69.144.139 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 09:57
 
@post72 no that is where you are incorrect

First post: What's your opinion on Coaches who are taken on as National Team Coaches but they blatantly poach athletes from other teams

So it is in fact those who have responded to the initial post that have mentioned the TS Coach and then other posters who then mentioned the children. Like said above, this needs deleted!!!!
@Post74
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92.232.42.42 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 10:02
 
For all those with accounts if you flag the top right corner of the post that is the best chance to get it removed
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@Post75
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92.232.42.42 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 10:07
 
Also @admin I'm logged in and it won't post as my name?
@Post76
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kayemm (167) | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 10:08
 
I’ve flagged it @post74
@Post77
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213.205.241.178 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 10:44
 
I have flagged so many threads on here for the past year and nothing has been done about them. Whoever is running this is quite happy to let keyboard gangsters sit and rip people to shreds that they wouldn’t dream of saying to their face.
@Post78
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85.255.237.199 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 11:05
 
Scottish Cheer is so divided , that is why everything Is so bitter and Coaches are completely divided also . This is not the 1st instance of Ts coach taking athletes from another team . This needs be addressed . Also time all
Scottish coaches sorted their differences out for a better representation all round for Scotland
@Post79
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86.153.40.63 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 11:07
 
What your asking for is just insane. For a coach to be “authentically Scottish,” be the best in the country and not coach any team but the national team... I mean, who has the credentials for that?! Really? Show me any single coach who doesn’t work for a program, is Scottish and is the best in the country. Are you suggesting that these coaches should have to give up their regular programs or coaching jobs in order to coach Team Scotland? Because if so they’d have to be compensated appropriately for all the wages they were giving up. You’re talking about thousands of pounds a year, per coach. Also why does having a choreographer in make them a worse coach..?! Literally all of the big US teams have choreographers, Ohio, Minnesota, etc. You’re just completely out of your mind. It’s still a developing sport. Maybe one day we’ll get to the point where we can have that, but we’re nowhere near right now. And funny how you never hear england or wales complaining about the coaches of their national team not being “authentic.”

If a coach has as you say “poached an athlete” you should have proof to post. So go ahead, give us a link to a screenshot or details of the exact situation. That’s the only way your claims will have any weight.
@Post80
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62.100.211.38 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 11:12
 
@post62 yeah eventually zoom classes started but it was not a priority to get started.
Reply from @post81
@Post81
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85.255.234.43 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 11:55
 
@post80 so a moot point really.....I'm sure with this being an unprecedented situation that no one has ever experienced that offering Zoom classes a month after lock down happened is acceptable! I'm sure the coaches had their own cirmcumstances to deal with for example home schooling their children, other work commitments....the list of priorities that would come before Cheer could go on.
@Post82
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92.1.138.9 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 11:56
 
Football originated in Scotland , you don’t see bloody Ronaldo or messi cutting around Glasgow clubs looking for support or any top manager ( sorry don’t no their names) having tea and biscuits with Steven gerrard or Neil Lennon. They have figured it out on their own ! And earned their true credibility. No one is saying there is anything wrong with having a “face lift” some support to finalise your decision but for god sake at least do most of the work yourself. Why are my children and all these kids learning ? Studying dance and choreography to just use PARENTS MONEY to pay for an American routine ? Not the coaches money actually ? It’s a FAIR POINT so don’t give nonsense that people don’t know what they are talking about. Pipe down with deleting the thread too , why is that can’t handle the truth ?

The Truth from the original post is their is unethical coaches in Scotland who care about themselves are their team alone. Who have poached children offering them placements on their team with absolutely no respect for anyone but themselves. I’ve personally seen my girls coach shattered, devastated giving everything and more to these kids sent them off to TS , to get a twos up this program has offered me a spot. They are NOT bigger and better and it will soon catch up to them, it did once before and it will again. Have some decorum , have some respect for these “smaller teams” who produce athletes who are equally as good OR BETTER than theirs .

And BTW it is possible to tour all clubs and select a top team if other countries can do it so can we and a national coach can SOLEY be a national coach . Makes more sense , less politics , fair trials and no poaching. Leave the programs coached BY THEIR OWN.
Jesus ... note to my fellow parents : never mind paying money to send your children on coaching credentials , just start a team get your parents to pay other coaches ( while you still pay me too) and build it up . Win win , might try it myself. It’s a joke.

Well done to the teams who make it big their own way , not in the pockets of anyone else. And get our TS impartial non poaching coaches. Plenty young blood talented coaches there that can do it after their 9-5 job.
Reply from @post83
@Post83
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213.205.241.178 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 12:06
 
@post82 you are making an absolute tit of yourself .
Reply from @post85
@Post84
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86.153.40.63 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 12:07
 
And how are you paying for all of this exactly?! Who is paying to tour around all the clubs? Who is paying to have the coaches only coach the national team? You can’t possibly compare football and cheerleading. Football is our national sport supported worldwide by millions, propped up heavily by the supporters. It’s a billion pound industry funded by the richest in the world. Cheerleading clubs are all small businesses here. All private individuals trying to make a living. None of them have private millionaire backers. You’re comparing apples and Tesla’s. It can’t be done.

And to your point of “young blood”... Team Scotland brought in young blood coaches this year and this forum went off about how they weren’t qualified and hadn’t proven themselves. You’re laughable. Maybe stick to parenting your child and leave cheerleading to the professionals yeah 👍🏽
@Post85
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92.1.138.9 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 12:08
 
@post83 , that’s very kind and a lovely response to MY OPINION, but your just angry cause I have a very good and valid point 😉
Reply from @post86
@Post86
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86.153.40.63 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 12:08
 
@post85 YOU HAVE NO GOOD AND VALID POINT. Honest to god. 😂
@Post87
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213.205.241.178 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 12:10
 
Omg nothing you say makes any sense ?!
The coach of team who’s kids left has asked to have this thread removed on FB. If she’s not wanting it on here then why as a parent of her team are you dragging more up? I hope she finds out who your are and kicks you out her club
@Post88
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92.1.138.9 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 12:11
 
I’m glad I’ve made you laugh and brighten your day , your attitude just proves exactly why the sport isn’t valued. If your the “professionals” and say their is no comparison . Then I rest my case , there’s your answer ! If you don’t value it as much as football the sport won’t make it
@Post89
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86.153.40.63 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 12:13
 
It has nothing to do with how much I “value” the sport and everything to do with the economy and structures behind it pal. Get a grip
@Post90
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92.1.138.9 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 12:16
 
Why should it be removed . There is no bullying. It is facts. What am I saying that’s offending you SO MUCH ? 😂😂 can’t handle the truth ?
I’ve said my opinion and I’m entitled to it , I don’t disrespect yours I just fully believe your wrong whether your a coach parent or athlete.
Scared people will read it and also question why they paying a coach and an American coach or question why is that ethically current to poach.
You all think you are bigger and better and Scotland deserves better. The athletes deserve better the parents deserve better and most importantly the children do .
Haha call for it deleted . Can’t handle the truth.
You all have a lovely time being “Scottish” with your American help , and supporting a poach . By guys !
@Post91
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94.195.120.171 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 12:26
 
I have just figured out who you are this is absolutely hilarious ..

Bye Karen .. absolutely clueless
@Post92
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92.232.42.42 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 12:30
 
Hi its Jen - Team Scotland Senior Cheer coach and Rockstar occasional coach

I have a full time job and earn no wages at all from cheer. I can tell you first hand how difficult it is to fit a worlds team around a professional job thay requires me to travel the length and breadth of the country often working 50+ hours a week. I have had little to no down time for the last year and barely seen my family, I am not complaining I understood the commitment when I took it on I am just saying it takes a mad person to do it!!

The suggestion that an independent coach who is not involve in cheer any other way or who isn't part of a programme isn't viable for the current status of our industry. You will note Team England is also coached by cosches from big name programmes - these are the people who are best placed to create routines, nurture talent and represent their country.

The application process for TS coaching is open to everyone with the relevant qualifications. Never in a month of Sundays did I expect to get selected for the very thing you are suggesting - I don't have a programme, there is no evidence of my work, I haven't a portfolio of championship winning teams to display my expertise as a coach.

Is the system perfect? No absolutely not we need to find a way to engage all of the country's teams into this process so that when coaches and athletes apply we are truly selecting the best of the best not simply the bets who come forward.

This thread isnt helping or resolving anything. To my knowledge at the last TS training no athletes had decided to move teams etc, this wasn't even mentioned in passing as I often make a point of catching up with parents.

From the above posts it seems to be a parent commenting, i would politely suggest you think about the animosity this is causing between kids when it is the adults who seem to have taken offence to people moving teams. I do not have have never condoned mid season moves unless exceptional circumstances but after the season it is a transfer window if you want to keep with the football theme. If there is evidence an athlete was actively sought out and offered a place without the athlete or parent asking for a tryout then that does seem a bit off but make sure it is an evidence based accusation rather than an assumption.
@Post93
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193.62.57.51 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 13:16
 
Athletes in America literally move across the whole country to join other teams. And then sometimes go back to their original team after a season or two with, shock, no hard feelings. The only reason this is an issue in Scotland is because people can't get over the rivalry between teams. It's honestly ridiculous. I don't even think they have issues like this in England.
If athletes choose to move teams between seasons then this is not a big deal. We shouldn't be discouraging athletes from moving if they believe they will be able to improve or have better opportunities elsewhere. It is an entirely different issue if a coach is saying mid-season "I have a spot for you if you quit your team" or saying "come to my team after the summer I'll put you on my Worlds team and you don't have to tryout" - but currently there is no evidence of this happening.
Children are being mentioned on this thread and if you are in any way involved with TS it is not difficult to identify those who have chosen to move teams. The discussion needs to stop.
@Post94
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85.255.233.163 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 13:56
 
Athletes are obviously going enjoy the change from their own clubs when they join Ts .
Different style of teaching , new friends , working alongside higher ability athletes than they normally used to training with ,so they obviously then interested in the Ts coach own team etc etc , but it should not be allowed , Ts coaches should make them sign agreement that they need stay within their own team for at least 12-24 mths after they sign up for Ts . This is definately happening Ts coaches = self gain
Until this is sorted this argument will continue
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@Post95
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193.62.57.51 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 14:16
 
@post94 it sounds like a good idea but would it work in practice? Surely this would just prevent talented athletes from trying out for TS because they know they want to move teams? Or if they sign it, and then decide mid season they want to move, would they need to take a year out of TS the following year because they moved/want to move in the future? That's just penalising talented kids.

Surely the way to manage this is make moving teams a lot more open and less of the "shady" practice it is perceived to be. If someone wants to move for genuine reasons, rather than a falling out for example, there should be clear communication between the athlete/parents and the coaches of both programmes.
@Post96
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92.40.192.2 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 14:18
 
Isn't that the case with the kids that moved, they have been on team scotland for some time now so in your view they are allowed to leave and seek training else where
@Post97
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Jen (1896) | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 14:49
 
Rules that don't currently exist cant be enforced.

But we can learn for future and put robust rules and expectations in place, i would suggest these are rules for TS and best practice for all star teams.

Just my humble take but if I was writing a proposal it would be :

1) Coaches (including junior coaches, team coordinators etc) cannot approach specific athletes/parents directly to recruit them to their programme. This does not include inadvertent advertising such as leafleting at fairs etc.
2) Athletes are expect to fulfil the contract they have agreed with their team before moving programmes. To ensure this is implemented a release form/letter could be used or simply a conversation between coaches if this occurs before the last competition of the UK competitive season.
3) After the last competition of the UK competitive seasons athletes are free to tryout for any team they wish to.
4) Coaches cannot approach an athlete to recruit them during an open camp or similar. Again this move has to be instigated by the athlete/parent, this may be as a result of a positive experience they have had at a camp etc however that is not direct poaching that is the coach delivering a value for money camp/class


And point 3 is important to me, we want to grow our sport. If we block athleted from moving teams out with comp season we run the risk of ultimately losing them from the sport. For whatever reason they have made the decision to leave their current team this is likely to happen whether you block them moving to a certain team or not.
@Post98
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Jen (1896) | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 14:53
 
just to add ... to my knowledge (and happy to be proven wrong by evidence to the contrary) the athlete moves have occurred out of comp season and without a coach approaching the athlete to offer them a place on their programme.
@Post99
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kayemm (167) | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 15:03
 
Agree with those points Jen.
@Post100
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92.1.138.9 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 15:07
 
What is hard to understand here ?
Why should any coach send athletes to TS if they then know they will lose them then ? How dare anyone suggest the TS coaches can offer better programs with them, that’s nonsense. How is that even true. ? The standard in all Scottish teams is phenomenal

If it’s apparent that people involved with TS make a move on them for their team ? For their gain in Scottish cheer and dance . Isn’t the whole idea of TS to bring the best of the athletes together ? Not only certain teams participating because of the political aspects involved
Why do the TS coaches have that advantage over other teams , what makes them better and to gain these well trained athletes and poaching ? Because they are part of TS ?

Nonsense !! TS coaches should be impartial , they should 100% ensure they have the best athletes in the country regardless what program they come from . And they should NEVER offer placements to these athletes for their own personal benefit mid season or before tryouts. They should use the end of season and do it with some respect with gratitude and then absolutely allow a child to move.

Regardless what’s posted and what is said , whether you are a coach or parent or athlete or part of TS for that matter . , TS is not a true representation of this country , rules aren’t in place that should be . And the coaches who work with TS should not poach.
TS needs to sort their politics and play a fair game , coaches won’t send children for tryouts , so many clubs already don’t do it because of this and there’s only going to be more teams now that will refuse to get involved.
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@Post101
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Jen (1896) | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 15:12
 
@post100 we seem to agree on how things should be (with the exception of coaches who don't coach but let's agree to disagree)

We cannot force people to pay for trips to florida because they are a super talented athlete. Equally there are no current funding routes to cover the expenses for these athletes.

Therefore we are back to the situation where we can get the best athletes who are able and willing. There are lots of reasons beyond team politics that athletes don't try out - time, finances, exams, travel, just don't want to compete at that level etc. I don't want to be chapping on doors begging someone with a standing full and beautiful stunts to take part
@Post102
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92.232.42.42 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 15:14
 
also just to clarify a coach doesnt send an athlete to team Scotland. And athlete and/or parent makes that decision and sends an application

Granted some coaches are parents too but in this instance they are the parent not the coach
@Post103
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86.158.100.70 | Wed 5th Aug 2020 - 15:47
 
Can we just break this post down to what it actually is , a load of nonsense.

Fact 1;
The TS coach did not poach anyone, approach anyone at practice or directly or indirectly say to an athlete or parent that they should move to their programme this is complete lies, and this is just people seeing it how they want to , and cannot prove this, this is why they stay silent behind their keyboard trying to cause trouble when people are asking them for proof.
Fact 2;
as parents have already commented in this case the season was done their team was asking them to register for the new season and at the time the parents then contacted the coaches to say that their child would not be re registering and that they were going to try out at another team as wanted to do higher level teams that they could not offer to them. They did not lie or make up stories or sneak behind anyone's back, and this happened in May
Fact3;
The parents then contacted the new team asking for the tryout information and then submitted like everyone else a tryout videos showing their ability and skills and waited like everyone else to find out their team placement.

This is the whole story and that is it, you can try to change it , turn it, make it something that it is not and drag children through the mud as like someone said TS athletes all know each other and will know who is being talked about, can we just let this go and move on, nothing to be gained apart form fuelling the fire for bullying and haters that just want to paint whatever picture suits them
@Post104
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Thu 17th Sep 2020, 23:06
So call the police and report them?
In response to: Rising stars
Thu 17th Sep 2020, 21:08
Stars have put videos on their insta stories today of them stunting after SCE have said it’s definitely not allowed...
In response to: Rising stars
Mon 14th Sep 2020, 10:25
That's what I thought, going to make for a very interesting season, that's if we get to compete at all. Even by next year I cant see large venues being allowed to open. Kids possibly only having a few months if that to work on stunts that they haven't done for the beat part of a year.
Without the income from spectator tickets, merch, plus surely they cant expect the same payment for routines. How are EPs going to survive this?
In response to: NGB
Mon 14th Sep 2020, 09:21
@post39 Only non contact and socially distanced dancing is allowed until the distancing rules change. So no lifts etc.
In response to: NGB
Mon 14th Sep 2020, 08:42
So with new restrictions coming into place how are the courses such as BGU continuing to run?
Will demo athletes be stunting? The last course I went on the demo team stunted to show us grips etc.
Surely this any happen now as contact is not allowed?

Interested to know if it’s still worth booking coaches onto a course they won’t get full benefit from..

Are we better just doing online qualifications instead?
In response to: Courses